Interviews - The Environment Report

Interview: International Automakers’ Plans

Honda rolled out the 2010 Insight for it's world premiere (Photo courtesy of the North American International Auto Show)

Car makers are showing off new
models at the North American International
Auto Show in Detroit. Domestic automakers
are rolling out hybrids and coming plug-in
hybrids. Foreign manufacturers have a
little more experience with hybrids.
Toyota has been doing well with its hybrid,
the Prius, and the Japanese company plans
to release a plug-in version early next year.
Lester Graham talked with Julie Halpert.
She’s a reporter who’s been covering the
preview of the Detroit Auto Show (opens
Saturday January 17th). She says
Honda, which started this hybrid trend,
hasn’t done much lately, but it is now:

Transcript

Lester Graham: They’re paying a lot of attention to the Detroit Auto Show this
year because of the bailout and because of the new green cars that are being
displayed. Julie Halpert’s been covering the Auto Show. Julie, there’s a lot of
talk about the domestic automakers bringing on board hybrids and plug-in
hybrids in the near future, but it appears the Japanese automakers are coming
out ahead.

Julie Halpert: What’s interesting is the Japanese automakers feel it’s more
important in the near future to focus on regular hybrids. For example, Honda is
coming out with a new version of its Insight, that is comparable in size to the
Prius. And, it’s going to be the most affordable Hybrid. Priced under $20,000,
which makes it very attractive. Their argument is, these electric cars are
interesting, but there’s a lot of work to be done on the battery, and, so they would
rather see lots of people in hybrids, near-term. They think that’s going to make a
bigger difference environmentally than coming up with these plug-in hybrids,
which are going to be more expensive, and aren’t going to be offered for the next
couple of years.

Graham: If oil prices stay low, I’m wondering if domestic automakers will stay the
course of these more energy efficient cars. It sounds like they want the
government to force consumers into that market.

Halpert: Well, the government’s obviously placing a priority on this. And what
they’re very much hoping is that the government fuels demand by creating tax
incentives for these vehicles – they have the ability to do that, Congress has the
ability to do that. I think they’ve invested so much now, there’s really no
reversing course. The problem is that customers are very fickle. If gas prices
are low, they’re going to go back to their conventional internal combustion
engines. When gas prices were high, this past summer, there was a huge cry for
these alternative, more fuel efficient vehicles. The problem is that automakers
need to plan months and months in advance to bring out these vehicles. So
now, they’re on course to do that, it would be very difficult for them to switch
course at this point.

Graham: While Honda’s coming out with this new version of the Insight, Toyota’s
coming out with a third generation of the Prius, GM’s trumpeting the Volt, Ford is
going after smaller engines with turbo power. Why are they taking that
approach?

Halpert: Well, it’s actually quite a prudent approach. They’ve got this hybrid
Ford Fusion, which gets 41 miles per gallon. And, they’ve got this super turbo-
charged engine, which can boost fuel efficiency by 20-30%. And, their argument
is, let’s use more conventional motors to do this, because it gets into an
affordability issue. They can basically provide the power of a V8 engine in a V6
engine. And, consumers still want that power. They want low costs. So, they
figure, this new technology can go quite far in getting a lot of fuel efficiency and
not requiring consumers to pay this up-front premium that other hybrids cost.

Graham: That’s Julie Halpert, who’s been covering the Detroit Auto Show.
Thanks, Julie.

Halpert: Thank you so much.

Interview: Making Our Food Safer

The Government Accountability Office identified food safety as one of the major issues for the new administration to address (Photo by Ken Hammond, courtesy of the USDA)

As President Obama starts looking at

priorities, he or his staff will

have to take a look at the “Urgent

Issues” identified by the Government

Accountability Office. There’s a list

of 13 Urgent Issues, ranging from the

wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to the

oversight of financial institutions and

markets. Food safety is also on that list.

The Environment Report’s Lester Graham

spoke with Lisa Shames. She’s with the

GAO. She says food safety issues such

as the current recall of peanut butter

contaminated by salmonella are becoming

a real concern:

Transcript

As President Obama starts looking at

priorities, he or his staff will

have to take a look at the “Urgent

Issues” identified by the Government

Accountability Office. There’s a list

of 13 Urgent Issues, ranging from the

wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to the

oversight of financial institutions and

markets. Food safety is also on that list.

The Environment Report’s Lester Graham

spoke with Lisa Shames. She’s with the

GAO. She says food safety issues such

as the current recall of peanut butter

contaminated by salmonella are becoming

a real concern:

Lisa Shames: I think we’re all becoming more aware of how globalized our food
supply is. More and more is being imported. And, we’re also keenly aware of
the publicity that the recent outbreaks have had. Two and a half years ago, it
started with spinach, and, most recently with peanut butter. And, in between,
we’ve become aware of ingredients that may have become part of the food
supply, such as the melamine in pet food, and, most recently, in milk products.
And, we’re also facing the risk that federal dollars are not being spent as
efficiently and effectively as possible.
Lester Graham: Well, I guess I understand that, but I’m more concerned about
whether I can buy food at the supermarket or at other places and be sure that it’s
safe.

Shames: Well, let me say at the outset that, overall, our food supply is generally
safe. But there are challenges, because the demographics are such that we’re
going to be more susceptible to food-borne outbreaks. The population is getting
older, pregnant women are more vulnerable to these food-borne outbreaks, as
well as those who have immune deficiencies.

Graham: Now, a GAO report that I read indicated there are a lot of government
agencies duplicating efforts, and, in some cases, there are gaps in food
inspection. How did we end up with such a hodge-podge of efforts on something
as important as food safety?

Shames: The food safety structure has evolved piece-meal. And, what has
happened is that the Department of Agriculture is responsible for meat, and
poultry, and processed eggs, and the Food and Drug Administration is
responsible for seafood and fresh produce. Even that now has become a little
more fragmented, in that the oversight of catfish is now the responsibility of the
Agriculture Department. So, it’s a system that has many players involved, and
there really is no formal mechanism for them to work in a more coordinated and
efficient manner.

Graham: We also get some conflicting messages from agencies. Recently, the
Food and Drug Administration proposed that women who are pregnant or could
become pregnant eat more fish, while the Environmental Protection Agency
advises that those same women eat less fish because of contaminates such as
mercury. Why is there so much confusion?

Shames: Well, part of it is that there’s no convening mechanism for these
agencies to talk with each other. For example, a number of years ago, there was
a food safety council that was in place. We’ve also found that a government-
wide plan could also ensure that the goals of these agencies are complementary,
as well as the data that they collect, and the information they disseminate is
consistent and minimizes any confusion on the public’s part.

Graham: Are we talking about a sort of food czar?

Shames: Well, that is a possibility. We feel that agencies at least have to sit
around the table. And that really is one of our key recommendations to the
Congress and to the new administration. We’ve also asked for re-examination of
the food laws to make sure that they are consistent and uniform, as well as risk-
based. And that way we can target the scarce federal dollars where they’re
needed the most.

Interview: Making Greenhouse Gases a Commodity

(Photo courtesy of the EPA)

We can expect Congress will take up a carbon

cap-and-trade bill soon. That would make

greenhouse gases a commodity. The United

States Climate Action Partnership wants to

know the rules of the carbon trading game

sooner rather than later. US CAP is made

up of businesses such as GE, automakers,

some power companies and environmental groups.

Other business leaders say a carbon cap-and-trade

program will only increase the cost of everything.

Dan Lashoff is with the Natural Resources Defense

Council, one of the US CAP members.

The Environment Report’s Lester Graham asked him

why the companies in US CAP would want Congress

to come up with a cap-and-trade program now?

Transcript

We can expect Congress will take up a carbon

cap-and-trade bill soon. That would make

greenhouse gases a commodity. The United

States Climate Action Partnership wants to

know the rules of the carbon trading game

sooner rather than later. US CAP is made

up of businesses such as GE, automakers,

some power companies and environmental groups.

Other business leaders say a carbon cap-and-trade

program will only increase the cost of everything.

Dan Lashoff is with the Natural Resources Defense

Council, one of the US CAP members.

The Environment Report’s Lester Graham asked him

why the companies in US CAP would want Congress

to come up with a cap-and-trade program now?

Dan Lashoff: The opportunity that we have, right now, is to, first of all, invest
billions of dollars in the economic stimulus package – which the Congress will be
taking up in the next couple of weeks, that President Obama has made clear he
wants to see a substantial portion of that investment go into clean energy
technologies: insulating homes, building a smart grid to carry renewable energy
around the country. So, there’s an immediate step that needs to take place to
get investment flowing, to jump-start the green energy economy that we need.
That should be quickly followed with the type of comprehensive climate policy
that US CAP has called for, because that will guide longer-term investments, it
will mobilize private capital that is needed to build the clean energy future that we
need to have. And that will put people to work installing wind turbines, installing
solar systems, insulating homes, insulating schools. And keep the investment
flowing, and actually create an export opportunity for companies that are making
clean and efficient energy systems that the world is going to increasingly
demand.

Lester Graham: President Obama has talked a lot about the green economy and
green-collar jobs that you just mentioned, but will those jobs actually offset the
economic pain that a cap-and-trade program is expected to cause?

Lashoff: Well, first of all, you have to realize, if we passed a cap-and-trade bill
tomorrow, the actual limits would not kick in until 2012 at the earliest, and, by that
time, hopefully, the economy is really moving forward. So, what the value of
passing the legislation now is that it sets the long-term agenda, it sets the
strategic agenda that’s going to reduce our emissions, and it mobilizes
investment flows. The actual price signal that is needed to discourage global
warming pollution actually wouldn’t kick in for a couple of years, and that actually
works quite well with the timing, that is appropriate given the current economic
crisis.

Graham: The 80% emissions reduction below 2005 levels by 2050 is exactly
what President Obama has suggested we do, but there still are enough
Republicans who hold enough seats in the Senate to block cap-and-trade if they
wanted to. What are the chances of having legislation like this passed?

Lashoff: Well, I’m very optimistic that with the momentum that the US CAP
proposal delivers, the strong business support from at least a significant portion
of the business community, certainly not universal, that we can move forward. It
certainly will require a bi-partisan effort. There will need to be Republicans
joining the Democratic majority in the Senate as well as in the House to enact
legislation. I think we can do that. I think that this proposal provides a lot of
insight into the types of provisions, in addition to the cap itself. Things like
energy efficiency investments that will hold down the costs for consumers,
approaches to dealing with concerns of the economic impact – that chose a
pathway to get legislation enacted, hopefully in 2009.

Interview: Swapping an Suv for a Prius

Micky Maynard in her Prius (Photo courtesy of Micky Maynard)

Micky Maynard is a reporter
for the New York Times. She’s been keeping a
diary of giving up her Lexus SUV for a hybrid
gas-electric car. She’s taken her readers on
a ride through her reasoning for switching
and her on-road experiences. The Environment
Report’s Lester Graham took a ride with Maynard
in her Barcelona Red Toyota Prius:

Transcript

Micky Maynard: “Okay, so, to start it, you push this button. You see
the little ‘ready’ button, and you hear a little sound, and that’s
essentially the battery starting the car. And, off you go.”

Lester Graham: “I recall, when I was younger, I went from a pretty
powerful car to a little car, and the one thing I really noticed was
that it felt like I was driving a toy. What’s the difference between
driving the Lexus and driving this one?”

Maynard: “A difference is that in the Lexus, or in a SUV, you’re sitting
up above the ground. This car, you’re right back down on the road.
And it took a lot of adjusting. I was driving from Detroit to Chicago,
and I heard this ‘thump, thump, thump,’ and I thought I had a flat
tire, but it was just the road surface. Because I was used to sitting
up high, I never would have noticed the road bed before.”

Graham: “I know that some newby Prius drivers that when they
come to a stop, like we are now, there’s almost no sound
sometimes.”

Maynard: (laughs) “That’s right. In fact, my postman was telling me
hybrid cars will come up behind him, and he says, ‘they’re sneaky
little cars.’ He said, ‘you can’t hear them.’ (laughs)

Graham: “What’s it like going on to the on-ramp on the interstate?”

Maynard: “I haven’t had any trouble yet, because I generally try to
give myself enough space between myself and the person behind
me. You know, when you’re in a luxury car, a Lexus, you hit the
pedal and you get all this acceleration. This car’s quite peppy, but it
doesn’t have that rrrrrrrrrrrr that you get in a V8 or a V6. And that is
something to get used to.”

Graham: “I keep hearing from Prius owners that the consumption
meter really changes how they drive. How has the feedback from
the car affected how you drive?”

Maynard: “It affects how I drive tremendously. There’s a
consumption screen in the car, and it will show you exactly the kind
of miles-per-gallon you’re getting. So, if you don’t floor it, you can
get 100 miles-a-gallon – at least that’s what the car’s telling you. And
you have another meter that shows you what you’re averaging over
your trip. My pride and joy was driving a long trip and getting over
50 miles-a-gallon. And you kind of feel this little shot of pride when
you see the 50 or the 47.”

Graham: “So, you’re encouraged to take it easy just so you can be
rewarded with the feedback?”

Maynard: “And I don’t want people to think that Prius owners are all
out there going 17 miles-per-hour. We’re not. What’s going on is
we’re trying to drive smoothly, we’re trying to drive in a steady
fashion. Although they tell you that you get better gas mileage in
town, driving around city streets, I’ve actually gotten fantastic gas
mileage just driving steadily on the highway. You do keep the
consumption meter up on the screen, and you do watch it. Now, I
did have one reader write in and say, ‘stop watching the screen and
watch the road,’ and I assured her that I absolutely do watch the
road. But you do sort of glance over and kind of check how you’re
doing.”

Interview: ‘Bottlemania’

Author Elizabeth Royte encourages people to buy reusable water bottles instead of disposable. Just make sure your water bottle doesn't have BPA in it like this one! (Photo by Rebecca Williams)

We buy a lot of bottled water.
Globally, sales are more than 60-billion
dollars a year. Elizabeth Royte just wrote
a new book about the whole bottled water
phenomenon. It’s called ‘Bottlemania’.
The Environment Report’s Lester Graham
asked her how we got to where we’re carrying
a plastic bottle of water with us at all times:

Transcript

Elizabeth Royte: “Because of hundreds of millions of dollars spent on advertising telling us that
bottled water is pure and natural, will make us look better, and make us more attractive to the
opposite sex. If you’re smart, you’ll drink bottled water.”

Lester Graham: (laughs) “Okay, so at $1.39 a pint, it sounds like I’m paying for a lot of advertising
and not much water.”

Royte: (laughs) “Yeah. You’re paying for advertising, you’re paying for lawyers, you’re paying for
PR flacks, you’re paying for the right to extract water from communities where many people might
not. So there’s a lot of legal battles going on over it, so some of your money may be going toward
that. You’ll be doing your pocketbook and the environment a big favor by just getting a good
refillable, reusable, washable bottle and filling it up with good old tap water.”

Graham: “A lot of bottled water comes from public water supplies. Dasani and Aquafina, from
Coke and Pepsi, come from public water supplies, and, as you say in ‘Bottlemania’, ‘they filter the
bejesus out of it’. Other water comes from natural springs, or glaciers, or pure mountain rivers –
doesn’t that make it better?”

Royte: “Well, you’ve hit on it, because that’s what they’re trading on and sometimes they charge a
bit more from that. They do say it is a natural product – it’s coming from the Earth. Those other
brands, Aquafina and Dasani, do start from municipal water supplies, they’re very filtered. And if
you don’t want to have minerals in your water, then you should aim for one of those. Or, get a
reverse-osmosis filter and install it under your sink and you’ll get the same thing, more or less.”

Graham: “Okay, so I’ve been buying bottled water by the case, let’s say. You want me to stop
buying bottled water because there’s fuel used in it, there’s petroleum used in the plastic, I’m
paying more than I should have to for water. What should I do?”

Royte: “You shouldn’t buy bottled water for bad reasons. You should educate yourself. You
should find out what’s going on upstream, what’s going on in your watershed, what sort of industry,
agriculture, development. Read your consumer confidence report. Know the utility is found in the
water, then go a step further, and order up some of your own tests so you can find out what’s in the
pipes in your house. Because the utility is responsible for the quality of the water only until it gets
to your service lines.”

Graham: “But that’s a lot of work. It’s easier to buy a bottle of water.”

Royte: (laughs) “It’s easier in the short run, but it’s going to hurt you financially in the long run, and
its contributing to climate change. That’s the carbon footprint of the transportation, the making the
bottles, the landfills, the incinerator, the litter – it goes on and on and on. It is a little bit of money
up front. But it’s only up front. You’ll get that reusable bottle, you might have to get a filter, but
again, you’re going to save money buying this filter and maintaining it over relying only on bottled
water.”

Graham: “So, let’s say you go to lunch or go to meet someone for coffee and your friend comes in
with a plastic bottle of water they bought at a local store. Do you resist the urge to say, ‘hey, do
you know?’ or do you go ahead and let them have it. Let me hear your elevator speech to your
friend.”

Royte: (laughs) “I don’t have friends like that.” (laughs) “All my friends have refillable, reusable
bottles.” (laughs) “No, yeah, I sometimes do resist the urge. I do see people in their cars with
these bottles and I don’t say anything because I want to keep them as friends. But I try to model
good behavior, and they see me filling up my bottle, and I hope some of that rubs off on them.”

Elizabeth Royte is the
author of ‘Bottlemania: How Water Went On Sale
And Why We Bought It’. She spoke with Lester Graham.

Interview: ‘The Better World Shopping Guide’

(Photo provided by Dr. Ellis Jones)

A lot of people want to know what
they can do to be more environmentally friendly.
Ellis Jones says you make a vote on environmental
issues every time you pull out your wallet.
Jones is a sociologist at the University of
California Davis. And he’s written a pocket-sized
booklet called ‘The Better World Shopping Guide’
that grades companies that make the things we buy.
The Environment Report’s Lester Graham talked to
him about the guide:

Transcript

Ellis Jones: “I think that people will use this guide to make sure that the companies that
are doing good work get their dollars. And the companies that are not doing good work,
they don’t get their dollars until they improve.”

Lester Graham: “I chose three topics. One of them is gasoline. No one gets an A+? But
you did give an A to Sunoco and you gave an F to Exxon-Mobile. Can you tell me really
quickly what went into those grades?”

Jones: “It includes everything from how polluting their petroleum refineries are, what
their human rights records are when they deal with communities abroad, how they deal
with consumers, what their advertising is like and how they do or don’t ‘greenwash’ – to
really give a sense of, you know, the difference between the good guys and the bad guys
in gasoline.”

Graham: “I also looked at bread, and you gave an A+ to local bakeries.”

Jones: “Supporting a local bakery is really about as good as it gets. Far above and
beyond what you can get supporting even the most organic bread company.”

Graham: “The third thing I looked at was water, because bottled water is such an issue
these days. The A+ was given to tap water, which, in most communities, is as good as
anything you can buy in a bottle.”

Jones: “The most powerful difference a consumer can make is actually avoiding the
product all together. So, anything to really minimize the impact because this industry
itself is inherently problematic.”

Graham: “Just casually flipping through looking at who rated an F in your guide, often it
seemed like it was the most recognizable name. Kraft, Nabisco, Libby’s. Those kinds of
companies. Why is it these really large corporations tended to do so poorly in your
guide?”

Jones: “Well, you know, I think this really points out a kind of inherent problem within
our current economic system. And that is that the way to get ahead in the system is to
grow larger, to gobble up smaller companies, to basically out-compete the other
companies around you by cutting costs wherever you can by using larger economies of
scale. And the process that gets lost in the system is the impact on the people and the
planet.”

Graham: “I’m wondering how this changes your view of things when you go shopping
now.”

Jones: “Well, let me tell you, I really have put in as much research as a human being can
into this. And I am still filled with questions. These questions are out there and we need
to keep companies accountable and the government accountable to be able to provide us
with good data so we can make smart decisions as consumers.

Graham: “So your guide doesn’t let us off the hook, we still have to do some of our own
homework.”

Jones: (laughs) “Exactly. We have to actually make do with the information that we
have now, make the best choices available, and then as new information comes in, then
we’re responsible to make even better choices. But in that process we have to build in
quite a bit of forgiveness, because one thing this book is not about being perfect or pure
in the world. It really is about trying to make the best choice at any given time in any
given place.”

Interview: Wind Power on the Water

Some people find wind turbines unsightly, and would prefer them off-shore (Photo courtesy of the EPA)

There’s a lot of wind along coastal
areas… perfect for wind turbines. But a lot
of people don’t like the idea of windmills
ruining the view. So, why not put them out
in the water, just out of view from the beach?
Projects have been planned or proposed or just
rumored off the coast of places such as southern
Georgia, Delaware, Cape Cod, and Michigan out
in Lake Michigan. There are already some off-
shore wind turbines operating in Europe. Thijs
Westerbeek is the sustainable
development expert with Radio Netherlands. He
says off the coast turbines are more popular
than wind mills on the land:

Transcript

Thijs Westerbeek: “Actually, the public reaction is excellent, because the whole
‘nimby effect’ doesn’t occur. The thing where you like wind energy, as a
principle. You like this big mill turning around and producing clean electricity.
But you just don’t want it in your backyard. You don’t want the noise, you don’t
want the flickering effect of the sun shining through, you don’t want birds to fly
into this, and you certainly don’t want to see it. Now, if the wind turbines are off-
shore, and far enough off-shore, that problem just doesn’t exist.”

Lester Graham: “One of the concerns is that the windmills will be an eyesore.
Can you see them from shore, and does it disrupt the seascape for either folks
on the beach or boaters?”

Westerbeek: “Well, that just depends. The two small-ish windparks, they are in
front of the coast of the Netherlands, are pretty far-off. You can just see the tips
of the blades. So that isn’t really much of a disturbance. The two gigantic
windparks, off the coast of Denmark, are actually a tourist attraction. People go
to see them.”

Graham: “What kind of problems are they for marine animals and sea birds
when they’re off-shore?”

Westerbeek: “This has been tested by scientists in Denmark. And they counted
1.2 million birds passing through, and not one was hit. The birds just see the
turbines. That’s just not a problem.”

Graham: “What kind of problem do they pose for ship navigation?”

Westerbeek: “Until now, and I’ve checked this with the Maron Research Institute
– that’s the maritime research institute here in the Netherlands – there haven’t
been any accidents yet. And that’s mainly because windparks are typically built
on sandbanks where there can’t be any traffic. However, if they would be built in
sea-going routes, and a ship would bang into it, you have a possible disaster on
hand, because the turbine will collapse – hopefully not onto the ship – but if it
does fall onto the ship, that could be possibly disastrous. So the suggestion of
this scientist at Maron that I called was ‘don’t build any windmills in, for instance,
the North Sea, which is just too busy’.”

Graham: “How do they get the power from the windmills off-shore to shore? You
have to have some kind of cable, I assume.”

Westerbeek: “And that’s a problem. Because the further windparks are off-
shore, the more expensive it’s going to be to get that power on-shore. And with
rising prices for copper, that really is a problem. The cable could ultimately be
more expensive than the park itself. Off-shore windparks are definitely much,
much more expensive than on-shore windparks. That is a fact. But they are a
political solution. People who don’t want on-shore parks for the reasons I named
– unsightly things, noisy things – that is just solved, that problem, if you have an
off-shore park. So, yes, they are costly, and maybe too costly, but it’s a political
choice to have them built.”

Interview: Grist on Shower Curtains

Many new shower curtains contain PVC (Source: DO'Neil at Wikimedia Commons)

A new study looked at off-the-shelf
shower curtains and came up with some disturbing
findings. The Center for Health, Environment
and Justice studied polyvinyl chloride plastic
shower curtains and found that PVC shower
curtains can release as many as 108 toxic
chemicals. Lester Graham talked with Sarah
Burkhalter with the environmental journalism
site: grist.org. He asked just how
much of a concern these PVC shower curtains
are:

Transcript

Sarah Burkhalter: “It depends. This group – The Center for Health, Environment, and Justice –
tested five shower curtains, and their claim is that new-shower-curtain-smell is up to 108 nasty
chemicals that have been added during processing. At the same time, you know, there are
chemicals in everything. So, to an extent, you just have to choose your battles. Shower curtains
have become the emergency-du-jour, if you will. But, there is plenty else to worry about if you
already have a shower curtain. It’s not an emergency.”

Lester Graham: “Now we should point out that these shower curtains are not special shower
curtains. These were bought at Bed Bath and Beyond, and Kmart, and Sears, and Target, and
Wal-Mart. And I don’t even know what I would replace my shower curtain with. Got any ideas
about that?”

Burkhalter: “Sure. Well, the thing about these shower curtains, you know, it’s not even the shower
curtains themselves. It is the plastic they’re made of. And that is plastic #3. Its poly-vinyl chloride,
or PVC, or you may sometimes you may just see it as vinyl. And at grist.org, our advice columnist
always says, ‘no vinyl, that’s final’. That’s her tagline. She says, ‘no PVC for me’. That’s her other
way to remember it. Really, as much as you can avoid this plastic #3. Which, is difficult to avoid.
It’s in toys, and hospital tubing, and jars, and pill bottles. But as much as you can avoid this, is for
the benefit, certainly. As far as shower curtains go, there are a lot of alternatives. You can always
go for a door instead of a curtain. When our advice columnist, Umbra, wrote about this very issue
in 2006, she recommended polyester shower curtains. They also make organic cotton, and nylon.
There’s a different plastic, its PVC-free, its called ethylene vinyl-acetate, or EVA, so if you look for
EVA plastic shower curtains, those are a good alternative. Or, you could always take up
exhibitionism.”

Graham: (laughs) “Well, how hard are these things to find – these other, non-PVC shower
curtains?”

Burkhalter: “They’re going to get easier and easier to find as time goes by. Actually, IKEA phased
out PVC shower curtains over a decade ago. Sears, Kmart, Wal-Mart, and Target are all in the
midst of phasing out PVC. And, actually, Target had a goal for this spring, I think they said 88% of
their shower curtains now don’t contain PVC. So, if you look at the labels, and try to avoid things
that say PVC, you should be able to find alternatives, even in these big box stores.”

Graham: “So, what do you have hanging in your shower?”

Burkhalter: “Well, I have to say that I took a shower this morning, and it is a plastic shower curtain.
But, you know, I’ve had it for a couple of years, and the Center for Health, Environment, and
Justice, when they tested, they found that some of these chemicals hung-out for a few weeks, but
after a month or so, your shower curtain has probably done off-gassing all the chemicals that it’s
going to. So, if you’ve had your shower curtain for a couple of years, you know, really, instead of
trashing it, it’s probably best just to hold on to it. Don’t’ burn it – that is something that you really
don’t want to do with PVC. That’s kind of one of its great dangers, is that it releases dioxin, a nasty
chemical, when it’s burned. So, but as long as you’re not licking it regularly, you can probably hold
on to your old one.”

Graham: “I’ll avoid that. (laughs) Alright, thanks Sarah, thanks very much.”

Burkhalter: “Sure, thanks Lester.”

INTERVIEW: creativecitizen.com CREATORS

If you spend a lot of time on the Internet,
you probably know about MySpace, and Facebook, and
maybe you use Wikipedia to look up things quickly.
Well a couple of guys in California are combining
social networking, web content, and citizen action
to make a green website called Creative Citizen-dot-
com. Lester Graham spoke with Scott Badnoch and Argum DerHartunian:

Transcript

Scott Badnoch and Argum DerHartunian: “CreativeCitizen-dot-com is based on the idea that we need
to infuse action into people’s lives when it comes to the green movement. So, we call ourselves
the action-based green community. And it’s essentially where Wiki meets social networks. So,
we’ve taken the best of both worlds and put them together. And so, instead of trying to be a static
content provider, what we do is we open up the playing field for the entire community to be
involved.”

Lester Graham: “Now, when you’re talking about opening up to the whole community, that just
seems you’re asking for a lot of misinformation to be passed around. Who’s monitoring this to
make sure that you ensure accuracy on this thing?”

Badnoch and DerHartunian: “It’s very rare that people provide things that are absolutely incorrect.
Now, at the same time, we also have experts. And I’d also like to add that our experts really guide
the process. They show people where to go to find more information, so then more eyes are
actually looking at it, and making sure the information is actually accurate and effective in the real
world.”

Graham: “Well, even among the experts there’s an amazing amount of confusion about everything
from everyday questions like ‘paper or plastic?’, to lawn care, purchases we make – how do you
plan to get around some of those complicated issues that might depend on where you live, or other
circumstances of your locale or your lifestyle?”

Badnoch and DerHartunian : “We’re not saying we are the sort of all-knowing Gods of green, but, in
reality, we’re saying ‘hey, we don’t know’, and neither does the vast majority of people. So let’s all
contribute, and put the knowledge that we do have together, so we can actually get a more clear
understanding of what this green-thing is.”

Graham: “Your CreativeCitizen-dot-com site seems like it might just be the perfect opportunity for
some of these corporations to come in and really spin things for systems that might not be that
great. How will you compete with corporate green-washing you might see on your site?”

Badnoch and DerHartunian: “On CreativeCitizen-dot-com, we’ve created an organic R&D system,
where each creative solution is uniform in a sense, and users can come and comment on
solutions, and edit them. And companies are really putting themselves out there by saying ‘this
product or service really has this benefit or savings’. And people can say, ‘well, I’ve tried this at
home and it doesn’t have these savings’, ‘I’ve researched this product and you’re using these types
of methods to produce this and manufacture this product and it’s not good for the environment’.
Or, vise-versa, saying that this is good, and really bringing the real green products that are not
green-washed to the forefront.”

Graham: “What have you learned on CreativeCitizen-dot-com that made you a more
environmentally responsible person?”

Badnoch and DerHartunian: “Well, I’ve transformed my entire life since the process of really
understanding sustainability. But one of the main things is really understanding that efficient living
and sustainable living is not about a sacrifice. It’s about really putting in these little acts into your
daily lifestyle that really make you happier as a person, more efficient – not only in a personal
sense but in a global sense. So, one of the most simple things is recycling laundry water. I’ve built
a system in my house where I can just put the laundry water in a bin and feed it to my garden,
using waste-water that is actually more nutritious for the plants because of the minerals in the wash
cycle. I like to call it ‘optimize without sacrifice’ – that’s actually from Amory Lovins. Green is really
about optimizing your life, and making life better for you, and then the result, fortunately, is that life
is better for the whole planet.”

Graham: “Alright guys, thank-you very much.”

Badnoch and DerHartunian: “Thank you, Lester.”

Interview: Travelers Tighten Budget

Triple-A reports that gas prices are affecting many Memorial Day weekend travelers (Photo by Ed Edahl, courtesy of FEMA)

Nearly 38-million people will travel during
the Memorial Day weekend according to a Triple-A
survey. But they’re not expected to go as far or stay
away as long. And many people are just going to stay
at home because of higher gas prices. Lester Graham
talked with Triple-A’s Nancy Cain about travel plans
this summer:

Transcript

Nancy Cain: “Well, what we’re hearing from a lot of folks is that they’re still going to travel, but
they’re going to travel differently than they’ve done in the past. They’re much more economically
minded. They’re going to be looking for travel bargains, they’re going to be trying to camp out,
they’re going to travel in groups. They’re going to do anything they can to have an enjoyable
vacation while saving money at the same time.”

Lester Graham: “What about those big vacations that require a flight? Are fuel prices stopping
people from going places, far away places?”

Cain: “Triple-A is projecting that about 25 million Americans are going to travel over-seas this
summer. But they’re also going to try to be as economical as they can. Because, as you know,
the American dollar is pretty much at an all-time low. So people will still travel. We think the skies
will be fairly crowded this summer. But definitely much more of people’s discretionary income is
going towards these trips. They’ll have less for other things. And they’re less likely to buy
souvenirs once they get to their destinations. And they’re looking at, you know, perhaps
downgrading a room to a less expensive room, having a bigger meal at lunch versus at dinner
when dinner prices are more expensive. So any way they can, they’re going to be cutting costs.”

Graham: “Are people starting to look at other types of transportation, such as the train, you know,
Amtrak, to avoid the driving?”

Cain: “We think that Amtrak, certainly Triple-A, our surveys, have shown that people are showing
more of a willingness to take either Greyhound Bus, Amtrak, carpool with somebody else. You
know, the glory days of people taking a two-week vacation in July and heading out for two-weeks
to the beach, those days are pretty much gone.”

Graham: “I’m wondering, the hotel industry is a pretty mercenary industry, they’re really going after
travelers. I’m wondering what they’re doing to encourage people to travel, now, with this new
wrinkle in people’s budget.”

Cain: “A lot of the hotels, the big hotels, what they’re doing in many cases is offering, like, discount
cards, they’re offering, you know, gas cards. Everybody’s trying to do what they can to attract
tourists to come back, and go out there and spend. Even though gas prices are at record highs,
tourism is one of the backbones of the economy of this country. So, people want to get out, and,
also, they want to enjoy their vacation.”

Graham: “Trucking companies are starting to slow down to try to save a little fuel. And, I’ve heard
about it – although I haven’t actually seen – that some people are actually slowing down their cars
on the highway. Is that becoming a common trend?”

Cain: “You know, at Triple-A, we’re seeing that more and more. And this is advice we’ve been
giving for years. You know, slowing down on the highway, and even city driving, just five miles an
hour can really improve your fuel economy. And, we’ve said this for years, but now that gas prices
are looking at $4 a gallon, people are starting to follow this advice. Trying to ease up on the gas
pedal, avoiding those jack-rabbit starts and stops. And you can see, people are trying to be a little
more conservative, and thinking conservation when they’re driving.”

Graham: “So, Nancy, I want to ask you a personal question. What have you been doing differently
because of these higher gas prices?”

Cain: “You know, truly what I do, and I have been doing this, I have made a point of it – when I am
in line, like at the bank, I turn my engine off. It’s just those little things – turning your engine off.
And I do try to think conservatively. You know, plan your trips – so you can go around, and not go
out one place in the morning and somewhere else in the afternoon. And I really do make an effort
to do that, because you can reduce your gas costs. And also what I’ve been thinking about doing,
some of my colleagues have also thought this, you know, maybe we should start carpooling, even
one day a week. That would save some money.”

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