Interview: Wind Power on the Water

  • Some people find wind turbines unsightly, and would prefer them off-shore (Photo courtesy of the EPA)

There’s a lot of wind along coastal
areas… perfect for wind turbines. But a lot
of people don’t like the idea of windmills
ruining the view. So, why not put them out
in the water, just out of view from the beach?
Projects have been planned or proposed or just
rumored off the coast of places such as southern
Georgia, Delaware, Cape Cod, and Michigan out
in Lake Michigan. There are already some off-
shore wind turbines operating in Europe. Thijs
Westerbeek is the sustainable
development expert with Radio Netherlands. He
says off the coast turbines are more popular
than wind mills on the land:

Transcript

There’s a lot of wind along coastal
areas… perfect for wind turbines. But a lot
of people don’t like the idea of windmills
ruining the view. So, why not put them out
in the water, just out of view from the beach?
Projects have been planned or proposed or just
rumored off the coast of places such as southern
Georgia, Delaware, Cape Cod, and Michigan out
in Lake Michigan. There are already some off-
shore wind turbines operating in Europe. Thijs
Westerbeek is the sustainable
development expert with Radio Netherlands. He
says off the coast turbines are more popular
than wind mills on the land:

Thijs Westerbeek: “Actually, the public reaction is excellent, because the whole
‘nimby effect’ doesn’t occur. The thing where you like wind energy, as a
principle. You like this big mill turning around and producing clean electricity.
But you just don’t want it in your backyard. You don’t want the noise, you don’t
want the flickering effect of the sun shining through, you don’t want birds to fly
into this, and you certainly don’t want to see it. Now, if the wind turbines are off-
shore, and far enough off-shore, that problem just doesn’t exist.”

Lester Graham: “One of the concerns is that the windmills will be an eyesore.
Can you see them from shore, and does it disrupt the seascape for either folks
on the beach or boaters?”

Westerbeek: “Well, that just depends. The two small-ish windparks, they are in
front of the coast of the Netherlands, are pretty far-off. You can just see the tips
of the blades. So that isn’t really much of a disturbance. The two gigantic
windparks, off the coast of Denmark, are actually a tourist attraction. People go
to see them.”

Graham: “What kind of problems are they for marine animals and sea birds
when they’re off-shore?”

Westerbeek: “This has been tested by scientists in Denmark. And they counted
1.2 million birds passing through, and not one was hit. The birds just see the
turbines. That’s just not a problem.”

Graham: “What kind of problem do they pose for ship navigation?”

Westerbeek: “Until now, and I’ve checked this with the Maron Research Institute
– that’s the maritime research institute here in the Netherlands – there haven’t
been any accidents yet. And that’s mainly because windparks are typically built
on sandbanks where there can’t be any traffic. However, if they would be built in
sea-going routes, and a ship would bang into it, you have a possible disaster on
hand, because the turbine will collapse – hopefully not onto the ship – but if it
does fall onto the ship, that could be possibly disastrous. So the suggestion of
this scientist at Maron that I called was ‘don’t build any windmills in, for instance,
the North Sea, which is just too busy’.”

Graham: “How do they get the power from the windmills off-shore to shore? You
have to have some kind of cable, I assume.”

Westerbeek: “And that’s a problem. Because the further windparks are off-
shore, the more expensive it’s going to be to get that power on-shore. And with
rising prices for copper, that really is a problem. The cable could ultimately be
more expensive than the park itself. Off-shore windparks are definitely much,
much more expensive than on-shore windparks. That is a fact. But they are a
political solution. People who don’t want on-shore parks for the reasons I named
– unsightly things, noisy things – that is just solved, that problem, if you have an
off-shore park. So, yes, they are costly, and maybe too costly, but it’s a political
choice to have them built.”

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Stone Ground Goodness

  • Using hand picks from North Carolina, Operations Manager Bill Schaubs starts his first solo millstone dressing project. He was taught by Upper Canada Village's Roland Tetrault. The deep furrows help the grain travel across the cutting plateaus--until done to the right consistency as judged by the miller. (Photo by Lucy Martin)

Today, we buy whatever we need from the
store. But what would happen if we had to make
our own butter or spin our own wool? We needed
these kinds of skills to survive. And many of
them took centuries to learn. Some people are
working to keep these skills alive. Lucy Martin
followed a man who works in a historic flour mill.
He’s taken the time to learn old skills that he
says still matter today:

Transcript

Today, we buy whatever we need from the
store. But what would happen if we had to make
our own butter or spin our own wool? We needed
these kinds of skills to survive. And many of
them took centuries to learn. Some people are
working to keep these skills alive. Lucy Martin
followed a man who works in a historic flour mill.
He’s taken the time to learn old skills that he
says still matter today:

(Sound of rushing water)

Bill Schaubs volunteers his time at Watson’s Mill in Ottawa, Ontario.

The old mill is powered by water. The water turns two huge millstones that cut grain into
flour. A few years ago, Schaubs learned how to maintain the millstones. He’s about to put
those lessons to the test – on one-ton wheels that are nearly 5 feet in diameter:

(sound of the Mill)

Lucy Martin: “Well, here are your beauties!”

Bill Schaubs: “They are. Absolutely! 1860’s beauties, if you will.”

Martin: “These date all the way back to then?”

Schaubs: “Yes, ma’am. They do.”

Millstones have something in common with car tires – their “tread” eventually wears down.
These wheels need to be dressed. Someone has to grind off encrusted flour
and re-chip the many grooves and surfaces, using hammer-sized picks.

It’s not a trade you
find in the yellow pages.

(sound of Shaubs chipping the wheels)

Bill Schaubs grew up on a farm. He still keeps some of his family’s land in production. But he
spent a lot of his career helping to build things for NASA. He thinks it’s important to know
many skills, old or new.

“Yes, keep the technology! It’s great; I love it too, OK? But we need to still keep our feet on
the ground and be realistic about everything.”

Schaubs says one reason to keep these traditional mills running is because of the kind of
bread you can make from them. These days, flour is typically milled in modern factories,
using high-speed metal rollers. A place like Watson’s Mill can’t possibly match those for
volume, or price.

But stone-ground flour is a specialty product. It isn’t always found at your nearby supermarket.
The high-fiber whole grain is cut, not crushed, by the stone’s sharp grooves. The process
preserves wheat’s natural oils and nutrients.

Larry Ellis is a big fan of bread made from this flour.

“I get at least one loaf, every week. It looks like it came out of your mother’s oven, sort of
thing, you know? (chuckles)”

Besides promoting things like flavor and nutrition, Bill Schaubs says there’s also a sort of
insurance factor.

“This grist mill here, is completely water-powered. So, if all else fails, we can always mill
flour.”

(sound of park visitors boarding a boat, speaking in French)

To keep the millstones in good shape, Schaubs had to learn from the experts. He came here,
to Upper Canada Village, an 1860’s era Heritage Park with its own grist mill.

Liam Carson works at the park. He says maintaining many different skills is important
because society doesn’t always know when they might be needed.

“If you can find a way of doing things that’s better, it doesn’t matter if it’s high tech or low tech,
it doesn’t matter if it’s now or then – better is better. And the more of these parallel paths you
have, that still exist, that’s a wealth of possibilities that can be accessed.”

(sound of the mill)

Back inside Watson’s Mill, the freshly-dressed millstones are ready to go. This is the test run.

(sound of wheat falling into millstones)

Bill Schaubs watches the gold-brown wheat trickle down while checking on the flour as it
comes out.

“There’s still a little bit of tweaking to do, but other than that, I’m happy! Good learning
experience, that’s for sure!”

Sometimes Schaubs worries that too many skills are getting lost. He’d like to see more
people taking the time to pick them up and pass them on. Old or new, he thinks we need
them all.

For The Environment Report, I’m Lucy Martin.

Related Links

Using Dams to Make Hydrogen

  • The Adirondack Trail. (Photo courtesy of the Adirondack Regional Tourism Council)

Across rural America, there are old dams and
millponds sitting unused. A century ago, they provided
vital hydro-power for local industry. But many of them
were shut down as big power companies offered more and
cheaper power. Now, one community wants to use its
hydro-dam to power a hydrogen making facility. Jacob
Resneck reports:

Transcript

Across rural America, there are old dams and
millponds sitting unused. A century ago, they provided
vital hydro-power for local industry. But many of them
were shut down as big power companies offered more and
cheaper power. Now, one community wants to use its
hydro-dam to power a hydrogen making facility. Jacob
Resneck reports:

(rushing water noise)

We’re standing beside an old dam next to a public area still known as Power Station Park.

“Back in the 1800s, where we’re standing now was a sawmill.”

Mayor Jamie Rogers is the mayor of Lake Placid, New York.

Two dams on this river create Mill Pond.

“As you look to your left, that was the old turbine house. It was one of two
turbines in the community that generated power for the village.”

After the massive hydro development in the late 1950s, Lake Placid’s hydro-electric turbines were
removed in favor of cheaper imported power.

Now the village is working on a project to again harness this local energy source. But this time it won’t
be for conventional electricity.

“We’d be generating power to start electrolyzing water to create hydrogen.”

Electricity from the dam would be used to extract hydrogen from the water. The hydrogen would then
be stored in high pressure tanks. The fuel could be used to operate vehicles without emitting any
greenhouse gases.

The researcher behind the Lake Placid proposal is Richard Greeley. He’s a former professor who’s
worked on other cutting edge energy projects.

“You use air from the atmosphere on one side and hydrogen on the other and they combine on the
electrode and it forms water and electricity.”

Greeley’s founded a company called Aqua Green Electric Energy. He hopes to develop local sources
for powering hydrogen fuel cells.

“This turbine set up I have could fit on any dam. Why you can renew it and generate electric power again from any number of dams, big, small,
little – any size. So, I’m thinking this whole feature can be duplicated once we show everyone that this thing works.”

The project is expected to cost $1.5 million dollars. The Village of Lake Placid won’t spend local tax money,
but plans to try to get state and federal dollars to pay for the project.

It’s expected to take at least 18 months to build. If it is built, it’s believed to be the first of its kind in the
country.

This project won’t be a money maker. The amount of hydrogen that could be produced would be at
most, about 25 kilograms a day – the equivelant of about 25 gallons of gasoline.

Eventually, local production facilities could spring up all over the country. Daniel Sperling is director
of the Institute of Transportation Studies at the University of California, Davis. He says as the sun sets
on the era of cheap oil, the nation and the world will have to start making other arrangements.

“It’s becoming increasingly urgent to reduce the amount of oil we use and to reduce the amount of
greenhouse uses. And in both cases hydrogen has great potential. Many people think that in 30 or 40
years it will be the dominant fuel source for vehicles, and for other uses as well.”

A 1998 survey by the U.S. Department of Energy found 212 untapped sites with significant hydro-
electric potential. That’s in the state of New York alone.

Lake Placid Mayor Jamie Rogers says all that unused power could eventually add up, cutting total
greenhouse emissions.

“If you look at small dams like this across the Northeast, across this state and probably across this
country, there’s a lot of potential to generate hydrogen fuel on sites from existing dams that are already in place.”

And he hopes his town is the first to show that it can be done.

For The Environment Report, I’m Jacob Resneck.

Related Links

Land Swap: Steel Mill Jobs for Forests?

  • The expansion of an existing steel mill could mean more jobs but less forest. (Photo courtesy of AmericasLibrary.gov)

Everybody has different ideas about how land ought to be used. Lately, the fight’s been about whether to allow expanding retail development on farmland. But a different fight’s going on right now, too. It’s a fight between two long-time rivals – heavy industry and open space. It’s also about jobs and preservation. The Great Lakes Radio Consortium’s Shawn Allee has this report:

Transcript

Everybody has different ideas about how land ought
to be used. Lately, the fight’s been about whether to allow
expanding retail development on farmland. But a different
fight’s going on right now, too. It’s a fight between two
long-time rivals – heavy industry and open space. It’s also
about jobs and preservation. The Great Lakes Radio Consortium’s
Shawn Allee has this report:


(Sound of train)


The town of Riverdale’s a kind of industrial crossroads. It’s near a Great Lakes port, heavy trucks lumber through its streets, and in some areas, rail crossings are as common as stop signs. At one time, this village just south of Chicago was known for more than just moving industrial goods – thosands of workers used to make things here, especially steel.


(Sound of birds)


Today, there are only a few hundred steel jobs left in Riverdale. Most are at one plant that sits near a stretch of Cook County Forest Preserve, a place called Whistler Woods. The remaining steel mill wants to expand. It wants to swap twenty one acres of Whistler Woods for thirty one acres of its own wooded land. Supporters hope the move will bring jobs to the town.


Jim Bush grew up in the area and is with the region’s chamber of commerce. He supports the deal, saying the area is fighting for its economic future.


“So you can see, it’s pretty hard to keep your schools up to standards and all your city services when you’re faced with a declining tax base.”


Bush says this is urgent. The Riverdale plant was recently bought out by Mittal Steel, the world’s largest steel company. Bush says to keep the mill attractive to the new owners, the county needs to make the company happy now.


“Mittal USA has plants all around the world. If they don’t do this expansion here, they’re talking about taking it to Ohio. We can’t let other states take business away from Illinois without doing something.”


Besides, he says, critics of the land swap should just do the math.


“Thirty-one acres for twenty-one acres. Sounds like a no-brainer to the business community.”


But not everyone’s buying into that calculation. To understand why, I meet with Benjamin Cox. He’s with Friends of the Forest Preserves, an advocacy group. Cox and I are traveling along the bike path leading to the field the company wants to acquire.


“As you’re walking along here, you can hear many, many birds. We just saw some deer. There are wonderful native plants here.”


Cox says the forest preserve district could use an extra ten acres, but the company’s offering land that’s half a mile away and across a river. Cox says that land won’t help these woods. He also doesn’t have much faith in the company’s new owners.


“The part of this that nobody’s talked about yet is that they have not committed to actually bring these jobs here or do this project.”


The company confirms this, saying it can’t make promises about jobs even if it could expand the plant. Cox adds the proposal flies in the face of Forest Preserves history. During the past ninety years, it’s only sold or traded land a handful of times and the last time it did, it go burned. A few years ago, it let go of two acres so Rosemont, a Chicago suburb, could build a casino parking lot. The parking lot got built, but the casino project never got started.


Now Cox fears if this deal goes through, it’ll be open season on Forest Preserve land.


“As soon as you start nibbling away at the corners, a little acre here, a little acre there, twenty acres here. All of a sudden, it’s ‘You did it for them, you should do it for me.'”


The plan’s supporters say they don’t want to sell off the preserves, they just want a little flexibility.


Cook County Commissioner Deborah Sims represents Riverdale and surrounding communities. She says opponents are typically from more affluent parts of the county, places that have an easy time attracting new businesses. There, she says,


“All you have to do is build a few houses and everybody will come. We don’t have that luxury. So, any economic development we have, we can’t afford to lose.”


So the land swap seems a small price to pay for a little economic security.


A tall chain-link fence separates the woods from the Riverdale steel plant. Despite the division, both parcels of land have something in common – their boosters are motivated by fear.


The area’s steel industry is, in many ways, a diminishing, precious resource. The Cook County Forest Preserve District also faces a crossroads, but a more political one. It holds tens of thousands of acres of open land, but it’s not clear whether it can always fend off demands made by a land-hungry economy.


For the GLRC, I’m Shawn Allee.

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