Interview: Asian Carp

  • Asian Carp can weigh up to 100 pounds and are notorious for jumping out of the water and injuring boaters. (Photo courtesy of the US Fish and Wildlife Service)

The US Supreme Court has turned
down a request from Michigan and
other Great Lakes states. They
wanted the locks in a canal to
be closed immediately. That man-made
canal artificially connects the
Mississippi River system and the
Great Lakes. For now at least,
those locks will stay open to cargo
traffic. This fight is all about
a fish, a type of Asian Carp, that
many people don’t want to get into
the Great Lakes. Lester Graham
spoke with David Jude about the
threat of the fish. Jude is a
research scientist and fish biologist
at the University of Michigan:

Transcript

The US Supreme Court has turned
down a request from Michigan and
other Great Lakes states. They
wanted the locks in a canal to
be closed immediately. That man-made
canal artificially connects the
Mississippi River system and the
Great Lakes. For now at least,
those locks will stay open to cargo
traffic. This fight is all about
a fish, a type of Asian Carp, that
many people don’t want to get into
the Great Lakes. Lester Graham
spoke with David Jude about the
threat of the fish. Jude is a
research scientist and fish biologist
at the University of Michigan:

Lester: We keep hearing if this fish gets into the Great Lakes system, it will be devastating for the ecology of the lakes, ruin the commercial and recreational fishing. What is it that all these people think this Asian Carp fish will do to the Great Lakes?

David Jude: Well, I am sure they all watch the video where the fish are jumping out of the river, in the Illinois River, and harming some biologists and some people that are there.

Lester: Smacks them in the head!

David: Yes, so they are very concerned about that. And then biologists are concerned about the fact that they have taken over the river there, they are very voracious feeders, and so they have really crowded out a lot of other fish in the river. So there are a lot of things that are going on with regards to impacts on humans as well as impacts on fish communities that we certainly don’t like.

Lester: And these are big fish, they are up to 100 pounds.

David: Exactly.

Lester: There’s this electric barrier in place in the canal that is supposed to prevent these Asian Carp from swimming from the Mississippi River into the Great Lakes. Environmentalists say that there’s still too much of a risk, too many scenarios where the fish could get through because of flooding or some other scenario, and that canal should be closed. The Obama Administration is fighting that, the state of Illinois if fighting that, they say we need that open. There’s barge traffic carrying steel and rock and gravel and grain, all of this seems to be coming down to money. Is money the right measure when we’re looking at this situation?

David: No, it’s not. I mean traditionally, we’ve gone into the, a lot of these decisions are made and the environmental costs are not taken into consideration. The costs of having that canal open are going to be very very high and, uh, and you have to balance it against what the sport fishery and the commercial fishery is the Great Lakes is going to be because once they get in there it’s going to be a very detrimental impact on them.

Lester: This fish is knocking at the door, we’re not even sure it’s not already in, so, is there a certain inevitability that this fish is going to be in the Great Lakes and we should just start making plans to deal with it?

David: Well, I don’t think it’s inevitable and I think if we did stop them and somehow were able to shut down the Chicago Ship and Sanitary Canal and prevent that avenue, we’d go a long way toward preventing them from coming in. The other avenue for them getting in, of course, is people that like to eat them and they might bring them in and stock them. So, I think we should be doing everything we can right now to stop them, I mean this is our opportunity to do that. But, the other part of it is, because they’re so close, and because as you know there probably could be some in the Lakes already, you know, we should be prepared to have some plans on what we might want to do to try to, you know, focus on some of these optimal spawning sites and see what we can do to keep their populations down there.

Lester: David Jude is a research scientist and fish biologist at the University of Michigan. Thanks for coming in!

David: Oh, my pleasure.

Related Links

Interview: Big, Nasty Fish

  • Some biologists worry the Asian Carp will destroy the four-billion dollar fishing industry in the Great Lakes if it gets in. (Photo courtesy of the US Fish and Wildlife Service)

There is a man-made canal that connects
the Mississippi River system with the Great
Lakes. The Chicago Ship and Sanitary Canal
makes shipping cargo between the waterways
possible. It also makes it possible for invasive
pests in the water to invade both systems.
The big concern right now is a big, nasty group
of fish known as Asian Carp that’s already
invaded the Mississippi and some of its
tributaries. An electric barrier has been built
in the canal to try to stop the fish from getting
into the Great Lakes. Lester Graham talked with
Jennifer Nalbone about the problem. She’s the
Director of Navigation and Invasive Species with
the environmental group Great Lakes United:

Transcript

There is a man-made canal that connects
the Mississippi River system with the Great
Lakes. The Chicago Ship and Sanitary Canal
makes shipping cargo between the waterways
possible. It also makes it possible for invasive
pests in the water to invade both systems.
The big concern right now is a big, nasty group
of fish known as Asian Carp that’s already
invaded the Mississippi and some of its
tributaries. An electric barrier has been built
in the canal to try to stop the fish from getting
into the Great Lakes. Lester Graham talked with
Jennifer Nalbone about the problem. She’s the
Director of Navigation and Invasive Species with
the environmental group Great Lakes United:

Jennifer Nalbone: They are just incredible eaters, and they get as big as 3 to 4 feet, 80 to100 pounds when mature. And they are just prolific. Some species, the females can produce over 1 million eggs in their lifetime. So the fear is, like they’ve done in the Mississippi River Basin, they’ll get so big, they’ll have no predators, they’ll eat so much food, and there’ll be so many that they’ll basically take over the ecosystem. In some areas, where they’ve invaded, upwards of 90% of the river’s biomass is carp.

Lester Graham: You’ve probably seen this fish on videos or something like that – they’re the ones that as a boat passes by, they’ll jump out of the river, and sometimes even hit the boaters.

Nalbone: I admit, the first time I saw a video of the jumping silver carp, I was so startled I laughed at it. But there’s nothing funny about 50, 60, 70 pounds of fish flying at you when you’re going 20 miles an hour. It could kill someone.

Graham: Now, there’s this electric barrier in place that actually shocks the water so the fish is discouraged from coming into the area. But now there’s concern that the fish has invaded a nearby river, the Des Planes River, that’s very close to this canal. So, why’s that a problem?

Nalbone: Our concern is with flooding. Just last year, we saw major floodwaters in the Des Planes River, where floodwaters connected the Des Planes and the Chicago Sanitary Ship Canal in streams of water several feet deep. And carp could be carried into the Chicago Sanitary Ship Canal in those floodwaters.

Graham: So, what are you proposing? How could we stop the fish from going any further?

Nalbone: Well, the long-term solution is hydrologic separation of the Mississippi River Basin and the Great Lakes Basin. Army Corps of Engineers has been authorized to study that problem, but that’s a multi-year project. Right now, what we’re concerned about are floodwaters this fall. We are pressing that the Army Corps of Engineers put in place sandbags or berms in the low points between the Des Planes and the Canal. And also fill in some of the culverts in the IMN Canal that connect to the Chicago Sanitary Ship Canal.

Graham: Now, I’ve watched this situation for years – long before the Asian Carp invaded the Mississippi River system – and I’m wondering, even if further millions of dollars are spent, to try to put up barricades or stop this fish, whether it’s simply inevitable that this fish will get into the Great Lakes.

Nalbone: Well, this is a battle against time right now. If we can block the future floodwaters from the Des Planes – which is probably our biggest hole in our defense right now – and plug the culverts in the IMN, we can buy ourselves some good time. But we won’t be out of the woods until we separate the Mississippi and the Great Lakes Basin. But we can’t let this invasion happen. It would be, perhaps, the greatest anticipated ecological tragedy of our time. So, I don’t think that inevitable is an option. We have to get it done.

Graham: Jennifer Nalbone is with the group Great Lakes United. Thanks, Jennifer.

Nalbone: Thank you, Lester.

Related Links

Sea Squirts Sucking Up Species

  • A colony of tunicates in Guam (Photo by David Burdick, courtesy of NOAA)

Slimy, hungry invaders are moving through
the waters off the Northwest coast of the US.
They’re called invasive tunicates –
or sea squirts. And they’re the same invasive
species that devastated shellfish farms on Canada’s
east coast. If invasive tunicates aren’t controlled,
you could see a lot of seafood options disappear
from markets and menus. Ann Dornfeld has the story:

Transcript

Slimy, hungry invaders are moving through
the waters off the Northwest coast of the US.
They’re called invasive tunicates –
or sea squirts. And they’re the same invasive
species that devastated shellfish farms on Canada’s
east coast. If invasive tunicates aren’t controlled,
you could see a lot of seafood options disappear
from markets and menus. Ann Dornfeld has the story:

It’s a peaceful spring morning at this suburban marina. But beneath the water’s surface, a hunt is
underway.

(water sounds)

Professional divers – like Jesse Schultz with the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife – are
combing the docks for invasive tunicates. They don’t have to look far.

“That’s one of the tunicates right there – that’s the guy right there.”

Schultz surfaces holding a jelly-like tube. Sea squirts compete with everything from clams to tube
worms for the plankton they all eat. The sea squirts usually win, because they don’t have native
predators. Three species came here from Asia, probably on boat hulls. Today, divers are cleaning
the hulls of local boats to keep the sea squirts from spreading.

Allen Pleus manages invasive species for the state.

“The whole intent right now is a containment action. We want to prevent any of these boats
from leaving this harbor with the tunicates attached to their bottom, going to another
harbor, and infesting that harbor or marina.”

When invasive tunicates get to a new harbor, they quickly become the dominant species. In the
warm part of the year, they spawn every 24 hours. And along with hogging the food supply, one
species of sea squirts forms a slimy mat that smothers mussels and other shellfish.

Pleus says if tunicates get out of hand, they could make a big impact on the seafood industry.

“It can definitely affect especially shellfishing in this area. Puget Sound, Western Washington is one of
the largest producers of shellfish in the nation. It could also affect other populations of
food fish, including salmon, by taking out a lot of the nutrients that juvenile salmon feed
on.”

Nova Scotia learned that lesson the hard way. Pleus says in Eastern Canada, entire shellfish
farms were recently wiped out by invasive tunicates.

“So the rap sheet is clear. They can grow to exponential sizes, quantities and smother
aquaculture facilities. They can’t even lift up their lines it’s so heavy with these critters on
it.”

To prevent the same thing from happening here, the state workers have to move quickly – and
they have to be thorough.

“Here’s another bag, Justin!” (splashing sound)

Back in the water, diving biologist Jesse Schultz has his hands full with a boat that has apparently
been docked for seven years. Its tabs show that’s the last time it was registered.

“This guy’s getting a free boat cleaning, sort of!”

The state is trying to scrape clean every infested boat in Puget Sound before the summer boating
season. But Schultz says because the docks are still covered with invasive tunicates, they’ll grow
back on this boat if the owner doesn’t keep it clean.

“That’s the biggest thing these guys can do to keep these things from spreading is have
their boats maintained.”

The state is still figuring out the best way to clean the docks. So far biologists have cleaned only
one entirely. When they were done, they’d removed ten tons of critters.

Unfortunately, Allen Pleus says only some of those were tunicates. In order to get rid of the
invasive sea squirts, they have to employ a sort of scorched earth policy.

“That is one of the hardest parts of this is that we have to basically take everything out.”

That means the good with the bad. We sift through a bucket of the creatures scraped from the
dock. Along with plenty of invasive tunicates, there are brightly colored sea cucumbers, scallops,
mussels, rock oysters, feather duster worms and chitons – exactly the kinds of animals the state
is trying to protect. They have to destroy the habitat in order to try to save it.

For The Environment Report, I’m Ann Dornfeld.

Related Links