Interview: Great Lakes Need Citizen Input

A recent report indicates many of the problems troubling the Great Lakes are due to poor governance of the lakes. The Great Lakes Radio Consortium’s Lester Graham talked with the chief author of the report, Restoring Greatness to Government: Protecting the Great Lakes in the 21st Century. Dave Dempsey is a policy advisor with the Michigan Environmental Council, which published the report:

Transcript

A recent report indicates many of the problems troubling the Great Lakes are due to poor
governance of the lakes. The Great Lakes Radio Consortium’s Lester Graham talked with the
chief author of the report Restoring Greatness to Government: Protecting the Great Lakes in
the 21st Century
. Dave Dempsey is a policy advisor with the Michigan Environmental
Council, which published the report:


Dave Dempsey: “Well, we have sick Great Lakes in part because we have a sick governance
system. We have an array of 21st century problems facing the lakes from climate change to
continued degradation of some of our waters with toxic chemicals, but we have a 19th century
system of government that’s trying to protect them and failing.”


Lester Graham: “Now, the International Joint Commission, which is a body made up of
appointees by the Canadian government and the U.S. government, is to watch over the water
quality agreement and the treaty between the U.S. and Canada as to how we treat the Great Lakes.
And the Great Lakes Commission is another group that’s made up of representatives from the
eight Great Lakes states and the two provinces in Canada that surround the Great Lakes. And
these are all 21st century people, I know some of them, and they’re bright folks, they’re doing an
earnest and fairly decent job. What’s holding them back? They’re not 19th century people.”


DD: “No, but the structures and the systems they use are 19th century. There’s two problems: with
several of the commissions, they’ve become very politicized. The International Joint Commission
used to have a tradition of independence from political pressures and looking at the long-term
health of the Great Lakes. That’s been compromised since the ’90’s. But maybe more
importantly, with all these institutions, they’re relying on the old fashioned way of dealing with
public input. We think, in the environmental community, that the way to restore healthy Great
Lakes is to make sure the citizen voice is heard. These institutions cover a Great Lakes basin
that’s hundreds of thousands of square miles, and they’re expecting people to show up at public
hearings, perhaps traveling hundreds of miles to get there. Today, what we need to do is take
advantage in governance of the Internet, and other ways of involving people that don’t require
that kind of commitment or sacrifice because people frankly don’t have the time.”


LG: “How would increased participation of the public help the health of the Great Lakes?”


DD: “Well, looking at the history of the Great Lakes, every time the public voice is heard
strongly in the halls of government, the Great Lakes recover. Every time the voices of special
interests are drowning out the public voice, the lakes begin to deteriorate and that’s what we see
happening now.”


LG: “The Great Lakes Commission has had some success recently in getting more money from
the government for the Great Lakes recovery, the IJC has done a good job recently of working
with the media to bring public awareness to invasive species because of the Asian black carp. So,
are those moves the kind of thing you’d like to see to solve this problem?”


DD: “I think it’s helpful. Both of these commissions can use their bully pulpit to publicize
problems and call attention. But if you took a poll of the average Great Lakes residents, very few
of them would ever have heard of these commissions. We need bodies that look out for the Great
Lakes that are really plugged into individual communities, and that doesn’t exist right now. The
Great Lakes Commission specifically was set up to promote commercial navigation in the Great
Lakes, and while it has broadened its agenda to look at ecosystem issues, it has been an advocate,
for example, for the Great Lakes review of navigation that could result in more invasive species
coming into the Great Lakes by allowing more ocean-going vessels. We need an institution that’s
looking at the health of the Lakes first, not at the health of the industries that sometimes exploit
them.”


LG: “Bottom line, what would you like to see done?”


DD: “I’d like to see a Great Lakes citizens’ commission building on the existing institutions that
plugs into the individual states and provinces around the Great Lakes and brings people and their
voices together so that their vision of healthy Great Lakes can be carried out by government.”


Host Tag: Dave Dempsey is chief author of a report on governance of the Great Lakes issued by
the Michigan Environmental Council. He spoke with the Great Lakes Radio Consortium’s Lester
Graham.

Related Links

Comments Sought on Navigation Study

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and the Canadian Department of Transportation are studying the navigational system in the Great Lakes and along the Saint Lawrence River. As the Great Lakes Radio Consortium’s Celeste Headlee reports, the groups are holding public hearings on the issue this summer:

Transcript

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and the Canadian Department of
Transportation are studying the navigational system in the Great Lakes and along the
Saint Lawrence River. As the Great Lakes Radio Consortium’s Celeste Headlee reports,
the groups are holding public hearings on the issue this summer:


The study will evaluate current conditions in the Great Lakes and determine what is
required to maintain the navigational routes at the existing size and capacity.


Tim Eder is the director of Water Resources for National Wildlife
Federation. He says any plans for Great Lakes navigation must address current problems
of invasive species and habitat destruction, not make them worse. Eder says only a
handful of ships come in from foreign ports on a daily basis…


“But each ship brings with it the risk of another invasive species and right now, our
fishery in the Great Lakes region is teetering on the brink of collapse because of zebra
mussels, because of sea lampreys, because of Asian carp that are knocking on the door
trying to get into the Great Lakes… most of which, not all, but most of which come in the
ballast tanks of ships from foreign ports.”


The public hearings are being held at various locations through July 14th.


For the Great Lakes Radio Consortium, I’m Celeste Headlee.

Related Links

Public Forums for New Source Review

On March 31st, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency will be holding public hearings across the country about changes to Clean Air Act regulations, called New Source Review. The Great Lakes Radio Consortium’s Annie MacDowell has more on the upcoming meetings:

Transcript

On March 31st, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency will be holding public
hearings across the country about changes to Clean Air Act regulations, called New
Source Review. The Great Lakes Radio Consortium’s Annie MacDowell has more:


The proposed changes to the New Source Review would relax standards for pollution
controls on power plants that are more than 25 years old.


Environmentalists worry the new standards could allow old power plants to pollute more.


The EPA will hold forums in Albany, N.Y.; Dallas, Texas; Romulus, Michigan; Salt
Lake City, Utah; and the EPA’s Research Triangle Park headquarters in North Carolina.


Bill Harnett is the Director of the Air Permitting Division of the U.S. EPA. He says the
meetings will give the public a chance to ask questions and make comments about
changes to New Source Review.


“It gives them more of a direct feed into the agency and the process, and it’s
something we always do on our rules is offer this kind of opportunity. And on
major rules like the one we’re doing, we always offer it in multiple places in the
country.”


Harnett says he expects a good turn-out, and the hearings could last all day.


After all public comments have been received, the EPA will review them and
decide whether to make the proposed changes.


For the Great Lakes Radio Consortium, I’m Annie MacDowell.

Ijc Hears Concerns Over Task Force Report

An international group that monitors the health of the Great Lakes is working on a report that they hope will help policymakers manage the waters in the basin. The Great Lakes Radio Consortium’s Annie MacDowell reports on a public hearing that took place in Chicago:

Transcript

An international group that monitors the health of the Great Lakes is working on a report that
they hope will help policymakers manage the waters in the basin. The Great Lakes Radio
Consortium’s Annie MacDowell reports on a public hearing that took place in Chicago:


Concerned groups responded to a report that came out two weeks ago by the International Water
Uses Review Task Force. The International Joint Commission appointed the task force to
provide an update on developments that have taken place in the basin since the Commission’s
2000 report.


Noah Hall is from the National Wildlife Federation’s Great Lakes Office. He says he’s
concerned the task force’s report does not emphasize how serious threats to the Great Lakes have
become.


“The report could mislead the public or interested policy makers and lull policy makers into
complacency in terms of the need and the urgency for basin-wide protection for the Great Lakes,
particularly for ground water.”


Hall said ground water depletion is causing problems in the communities around the Great Lakes
Basin. Other criticisms of the report were its failure to look toward the future on issues like
climate change and water diversion. The U. S. Chairman of the IJC says the Commission will
study all the public’s comments at a retreat and write their official report within two to three
months.


For the Great Lakes Radio Consortium, I’m Annie MacDowell.

Report Says Water Worries Overstated

The international commission that keeps an eye on the environmental health of the Great Lakes will hold public hearings later this month on a report that looks at water use in the basin. And as the Great Lakes Radio Consortium’s Sarah Hulett reports, the findings are not pleasing to some environmentalists:

Transcript

The international commission that keeps an eye on the environmental health of the Great Lakes
will hold public hearings later this month on a report that looks at water use in the basin. And as
the Great Lakes Radio Consortium’s Sarah Hulett reports, the findings are not pleasing
environmentalists:


The International Joint Commission asked a team of experts to examine water issues including
use and diversion, climate change, and conservation. The report says the problem of water
overuse in the Great Lakes has been overstated in the past three decades, while conservation has
been underestimated. It also calls the prospect of diverting water to arid southwest states “a dead
issue.”


Cameron Davis is with the Lake Michigan Federation. He says the report fails to recognize the
issues that will face the Great Lakes in the long term.


“One of the concerns that I have is that, in saying we’re not using that much water, that the
hidden message is don’t worry. We don’t have a problem.”


But the U.S. chair of the IJC, Dennis Schornack, says recognizing the pitfalls of faulty
projections is important to shaping future water policy.


The Commission will hear public comment on the report before drafting its own plan to present
to the governments of Canada and the U.S.


For the Great Lakes Radio Consortium, I’m Sarah Hulett.

State to Force Mercury Reductions?

Mercury emissions from more than 150 coal-burning power plants across the Great Lakes are coming under greater scrutiny this summer. Several states are considering ways to reduce those emissions. Wisconsin could become the first state in the nation to issue rules requiring large mercury reductions. The Great Lakes Radio Consortium’s Chuck Quirmbach has the story:

Validity of Corps Study Questioned

The Upper Mississippi River is a key navigation route for
commercial vessels traveling to and from the Great Lakes. The U-S
Army Corps of Engineers is studying ways to enhance the river’s traffic
capacity. One option is to expand some of the locks. That would reduce
the time it takes for barges to travel between ports. But one Corps
economist says the benefits of lock expansion don’t outweigh the costs.
Now, he’s blowing the whistle on those whom he says have fixed the
numbers to justify a one billion-dollar construction project. The Great
Lakes Radio Consortium’s Kevin Lavery reports:

Transcript

The Upper Mississippi River is a key navigation route for commercial
vessels traveling to and from the Great Lakes. The U-S Army Corps of
Engineers is studying ways to enhance the river’s traffic capacity. One
option is to expand some of the locks. That would reduce the time it takes
for barges to travel between ports. But one Corps economist says the
benefits of lock expansion don’t outweigh the costs. Now, he’s blowing the
whistle on those whom he says have fixed the numbers to justify a one
billion-dollar construction project. The Great Lakes Radio Consortium’s
Kevin Lavery reports:


Lock and Dam number 25 near Winfield, Missouri straddles the upper
Mississippi 40 miles north of St. Louis. Last year, 39 million tons of
grain, soybeans and other cargo passed through here. Though it’s winter,
water continues to rush through the dam. However, ice on the river farther
north has slowed barged traffic here to near non-existence.


A lock is essentially a watery elevator that raises and lowers boats to
different depths. Each lock is 600 feet long, but a typical 15-barge tow is
12-hundred feet long. Walter Feld is with the Corps of Engineers’ St.
Louis District. He says a tow has to break apart to negotiate the lock’s
narrow chamber:


“One lockage would take about 30 minutes. When you break that tow
apart and put two pieces together, it takes probably closer to 90 minutes.
So all that delay adds up to triple the length of time to get through
it.”


In 1993, the Corps began a 58-million dollar study of the upper
Mississippi in an attempt to plan for the needs of the navigation industry
over the next 50 years. Dr. Donald Sweeney was named the lead economist
for the study:


“The feasibility study is a planning and implementation
study.
You’re required to investigate the economic effects and environmental
consequences of whatever actions you might propose.”


At the start of the study, Sweeney says his team was told to give its best
unbiased estimate of the situation:


“And I believe that was truly the spirit of the study up
until
late 1997, at which it turned 180 degrees.”


Among other alternatives, the Corps looked at doubling the size of seven
locks to reduce congestion on the river. But the economics team concluded
the benefits gained would not be worth the cost of construction. Sweeney
says the analysis showed such a project would result in a loss of up to
20-million dollars a year.


In a written affidavit, Sweeney testified that top Corps officials
the economists to alter their analysis to justify spending a billion
dollars to expand the locks. The report points to a number of internal
memos indicating the Corps’ desire to appease the barge industry. In 1998,
Sweeney was relieved as head of the economics team, five years after the
study began.


Corps spokesman Ron Fournier says the media has underplayed the full scope
of the navigation study, and that lock expansions are not the only option at
the agency’s disposal.


“The study is actually navigation improvements, which is
variety of alternatives for the river. We have alternatives such as
extending the guide walls, adding mooring cells or buoys for barges to
tie up to, and then again also the expansion of the lock chambers
themselves.”


Fournier says Sweeney failed to take into account some of those
alternatives, many of which he says were added since the economist left the
study team.


“The navigation study has been evolving for the past seven
years; and as new data is received from the shipping industry, from the
farm growers and from a variety of other economists throughout the
country, new calculations are being used and different results are
being obtained.”


Aside from the financial issues associated with large-scale construction,
environmentalists say lock expansion would jeopardize wildlife on the river.


Washington D.C. based Environmental Defense has taken a leading stance in
the issue by releasing many of the internal Corps documents to government
officials. Senior attorney Tim Searchinger says the papers clearly show
most of the people in the study had a great deal of professional integrity,
and that some may have been pushed into doing the wrong thing.


“There is a top ranking leadership that’s willing to cause
environmental harm, even when the analysis clearly shows that from a
purely economic standpoint, the project isn’t justified either.”


Another reason why economist Donald Sweeney says the Corps is pushing
expansion is because such projects would bolster the agency’s stagnant budget.


“They’re trying to become a bigger, more vital agency.
And
sometimes that conflicts with a purely unbiased scientific analysis of
potentially a billion dollars worth of expenditures.”


Late last month, the Office of Special Counsel declared the Corps likely had violated the law in

catering to the interests of commercial navigation. The OSC is the independent federal agency with

whom Sweeney filed his affidavit. The office has ordered Defense Secretary William Cohen to

conduct an investigation and report back by the end of April. Spokesman Ron Fournier says from the

start, the Corps has been forthright about the
study both with Congress and the public.


“We feel that when this investigation is complete,
they’ll
find there’s no wrongdoing, and of course the
study has been done in an above
Corps will prove that the
board, upright manner.”


The investigation has also reached the congressional level. The Senate
committee on Environment and Public Works is conducting a number of public
hearings on the study this month.


For the Great Lakes Radio Consortium,
I’m Kevin Lavery in St. Louis.

More Hearings on Water Diversion

A report that recommends a moratorium on exporting Great
Lakes water will be the subject of a series of public hearings. The
Great
Lakes Radio Consortium’s Lester Graham reports:

Selling Great Lakes Water

Ever since last year’s attempt by a Canadian company to sell Lake
Superior water to Asia, the issue of Great Lakes water diversion has
been a hot topic. The International Joint Commission has been asked by
the U-S and Canadian governments to prepare a recommendation on the
issue by August. Over the last three weeks, they have been holding a
series of hearings throughout the Great Lakes region to try and gauge
public sentiment. So far, an overwhelming majority of people have been
speaking out against selling or diverting water, but as the Great Lakes
Radio Consortium’s Mike Simonson reports, that doesn’t necessarily mean
the I-J-C will prohibit the practice:

Army Plans Destruction of Nerve Gas

The U-S Army has applied to treat and destroy all of its V-X Nerve Gas at its Newport, Indiana facility. The weapon is considered one of the deadliest substances known to man. The Great Lakes Radio Consortium’s Tom Scheck reports: