Interview: Bill McKibben

  • ill McKibben is an author and the founder of 350.org, a grassroots effort to increase awareness of the threats of climate change. (Photo by Nancie Battaglia, courtesy of Bill McKibben)

Bill McKibben has been writing about
climate change for 20 years. More
recently, he founded the grassroots
organization 350.org. It urges
governments to do something about
climate change. Lester Graham talked
to McKibben and asked him how his
group deals with the debate in Congress –
especially when it’s less about scientific
facts and more about your brand of politics:

Transcript

Bill McKibben has been writing about
climate change for 20 years. More
recently, he founded the grassroots
organization 350.org. It urges
governments to do something about
climate change. Lester Graham talked
to McKibben and asked him how his
group deals with the debate in Congress –
especially when it’s less about scientific
facts and more about your brand of politics:

Bill McKibben: Well, it’s hard to deal with it because, of course, we don’t a kind of separate physics and chemistry for Republicans and Democrats. You know, the laws of nature tend to operate the same way no matter whether you spend your life marinating in Rush Limbaugh or not, you know. So it’s difficult because we have to deal with those physical facts. The only good news is that the only place where this is a political issue in those ways is the United States. The rest of the world, everybody’s on-board, understanding that we need to go to work. We’ve still got serious problems in this country. It’s one of the reasons that we desperately need the President to finally make some serious noise about climate change, and say straightforwardly and out-front what the dangers are and do what he can to drive home the peril that we’re in.

Lester Graham: The Center for Public Integrity reports that there are more lobbyists in Washington than ever before, working on supporting or blocking or somehow reshaping climate change legislation. How does a grassroots effort, such as 350.org, compete with the big moneyed lobbyists at work?

McKibben: Well, we can’t compete with them in terms of money. There are, I think, 2800 lobbyists that industry has hired to go to – which gives you some idea of what a bad job being a Congressman is. Each Congressman has 7 people devoted to making sure that they toe the line on fossil fuel. We can’t compete! Exxon Mobile, last year, made more money than any company in the history of money, okay? So, in that currency, we’re sunk. The only currency we’ve got is bodies and commitment. And that’s why we’re finally trying to organize a real movement around climate change. It’s not enough to depend on the fact that the science is on your side, and that any rational system or person would be doing everything they can to try to deal with this biggest problem we’ve ever faced. Our system, in that sense, isn’t rational. It’s dependent on power and pressure. And we have to accept that, and we have to accept the challenge of building those kinds of movements.

Graham: What do you think of the legislation on greenhouse reductions, greenhouse gas reductions as it’s shaping up in Washington?

McKibben: It’s in grave danger, if it hasn’t already, of turning into a sort of piñata filled with goodies for each special interest. Each Senator now is saying, ‘yes, but in my state we need a lot of money or whatever to do this, or, ‘we have to exempt this industry,’ or whatever. These guys don’t get the degree of danger that we’re in. They’re still using it as just one more political game to play. It’s why Obama’s gotta step up to the plate. He can’t let happen what happened with healthcare – just Congress take all of this on its own, let it drift, come out with some mediocre thing, and call it a victory.

Graham: What would you like to hear President Obama say that would compel people to say, ‘oh my gosh, we’ve got to do something about this!’?

McKibben: I’d like him to do what leaders around the world now – partly at the behest of 350.org – have been doing over the last few weeks. Saying, ‘here, in my country, are the grave dangers that we face.’ That’s the kind of leadership that we’re not seeing out of Obama, unfortunately.

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Mckibben: Are We Running Out of Time?

  • On the left is a photograph of Muir Glacier taken on August 13, 1941, by glaciologist William O. Field; on the right, a photograph taken from the same vantage on August 31, 2004, by geologist Bruce F. Molnia of the United States Geological Survey. According to Molnia, between 1941 and 2004 the glacier retreated more than seven miles and thinned by more than 800 meters. (Photo courtesy of the National Snow and Ice Data Center)

Back in 1989, a guy named Bill McKibben wrote
the first book on global warming intended for a general
audience. He was attacked – by conservative talk show
hosts and others. Global warming, climate change – was
crazy talk just 20 years ago. Lester Graham talked with
Bill McKibben about how long it took for climate change
to grab the public’s attention:

Transcript

Back in 1989, a guy named Bill McKibben wrote
the first book on global warming intended for a general
audience. He was attacked – by conservative talk show
hosts and others. Global warming, climate change – was
crazy talk just 20 years ago. Lester Graham talked with
Bill McKibben about how long it took for climate change
to grab the public’s attention:

Lester Graham: “Since you first started writing about climate change, the public
has become much more informed, more aware about the issue. So when will we
get to the point where enough people are willing to take action, or force the
government to take action?”

Bill McKibben: “That’s the question. You know, 18 months or so ago, I just got
despairing that we were ever going to get to that point. And, the first thing I did
was do this slightly cockamamie, but in the end, quite successful, march across
the state of Vermont, where I live. And because it was so successful, last year –
’07, we did this ‘Step It Up’ campaign, and we organized 1400 demonstrations in
all 50 states. Now, we’re trying the same thing on a global level. We’re calling it
‘350.org’, 350 being the number that the scientists are now telling us is the ‘upper
end of where we want to be’ with carbon-dioxide in the atmosphere, measured in
parts per million. We’re beginning to make those political steps. We’ve gotten
more traction in the last 18 months than we got in the 18 years before that, that
I’ve been working on this.”

Graham: “How much of that had to do with Al Gore’s movie?”

McKibben: “I think the two key things were Hurricane Katrina, I think it opens the
door, and I think Al Gore walks through it, you know. We’re now at the point
where 70% of Americans understand that there is a problem. But that doesn’t
mean that change comes automatically. We’ve got, maybe, a little window left –
but not much of one. And we’ve really got to get big change, globally, soon.”

Graham: “When I look at popular culture – priorities placed on having the right
things, living in the right house in the right neighborhood, driving the right car – I
wonder if my concerns about the environment aren’t just a little futile. When do
you find yourself most in doubt about whether we’ll ever arrive at some kind of
proper balance?”

McKibben: (laughs) “Oh, yeah. I find myself in doubt about that a lot. It’s not
that I think that given enough time we wouldn’t get there. Look, we’ve evolved
this incredible collection of emotions, and intellect, and senses, and muscles, and
stuff – it’s got to be for something more than reclining on the couch and flipping
the remote. I think, give us 75 years, and we’ll have grown out of this particular
phase that we’re in. The problem is we don’t have 75 years. So, of course, there
are moments when one despairs, and despairs a lot. On the other hand, one
looks around, and sees that, in this country, local farmers markets are suddenly
the fastest growing part of the food economy. That people everywhere I go are
at least beginning to talk about how much they’d like to put solar panels up on
their roof. It hasn’t yet quite gotten ahead of the Jacuzzi and the list of must-
have items, but I think it’s getting there pretty fast. As I say, I think it’s a race at
this point.”

Graham: “So you think ‘green’ might be becoming trendy?”

McKibben: “Well, ‘green’ is clearly trendy for the moment. But I think it’s more
than it’s becoming trendy. I think it’s that people are beginning to realize that the
kind of changes we want to see in our communities are also the kind of changes
that we need to see to make environmental progress.”

Bill McKibben’s latest book is a collection of his essays about the environment.
It’s called The Bill McKibben Reader, published by Holt.

For The Environment Report, this is Lester Graham.

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